Authority...how many links

Beitrag von **Optimizer** » 23.10.2004, 18:35

Hi,

The more links to a website with a certain link text means a sort of vote for this site on that query.

How many link are needed to become an authority without having a listing in DMOZ (or google) directory.

Just give your opinion and what your experiance in this matter did show.

Regards,
OPtimizer

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Beitrag von **mcchaos** » 23.10.2004, 19:20

Hm, wie genau erkennt man eine Autorität 100%ig?

Ich denke, das könnte eine sein: Bei einem meiner beobachteten Suchwörter ist "keyword.de" auf Platz 1 und davon auch irgendwie nicht wegzukriegen. Hat 14 Backlinks in Google und 70 in Altavista, kein DMOZ-Eintrag, PR4. Ich schätze, das ist dann eine Autorität, wobei ich nicht sagen kann, WIESO es eine ist.

Beitrag von **Webby** » 23.10.2004, 19:37

There isnt a set number of links. It depends on the branch/keyword. It also depends on the site size as well as no doubt many other factors. To be an authority for say "Tiffany Glass" is going to take a hell of a lot less thematic link popularity than say "Cheap Hotels". Authority calculations are really based back in Florida update and only effects those terms that are in any way competitive from what I've seen. For competive terms you are probably looking at over 4 figures of backlinks possibly 5 for very competitive terms.

Alan

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Beitrag von **Jojo** » 23.10.2004, 19:39

Wohl kaum mcchaos, wenn es sowas wie Autoritäten bei Google gibt dann wäre wohl zum Beispiel heise.de eine.

Beitrag von **Optimizer** » 23.10.2004, 20:13

Webby hat geschrieben:There isnt a set number of links. It depends on the branch/keyword. It also depends on the site size as well as no doubt many other factors. To be an authority for say "Tiffany Glass" is going to take a hell of a lot less thematic link popularity than say "Cheap Hotels". Authority calculations are really based back in Florida update and only effects those terms that are in any way competitive from what I've seen. For competive terms you are probably looking at over 4 figures of backlinks possibly 5 for very competitive terms.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I most cases authority is needed with the competitive ones...for the less competitive ones a well optimized site (page) does score still good on google. (daily work for me because my clients have poor optimized sites)

I understand also that is depends where the link come from...sure all factors you mentioned are correct and i know also that the answer is not easy given.

The point where i like to go to in the post is to evaluate the difference in authority with a site who is in DMOZ and a site who is not.

We know both the DMOZ has still great influence on authority as soon as the dump is implanted in the google directory itself...this makes it important...not the listing in dmoz itself.

I noticed also that it takes a much longer time to reach the top queries in a certain theme if the site is not in DMOZ.

Because DMOZ is a factor that can take very long to get in....if you get in, so it could be usefull to share knowledge in link structure building in this matter and know the effect of it.

Each of us who is professional involved in this matter does notice the difference in ranks after a PR and backlink update is completed but does anyone see in structure in it ?

Regards,
OPtimizer

Beitrag von **Optimizer** » 23.10.2004, 20:21

Just another guess.

We see daily DMOZ clones in the serps and looking at those we see also links at the bottom from those DMOZ clones.

Checking those sites does result in 6000 backlinks from it but poor ranks at the same time...so this does not work.

This explains also a bit that the number of backlinks is not important itself but the linkstructure in total.

regards,
OPtimizer

Beitrag von **mcchaos** » 23.10.2004, 20:23

Jojo hat geschrieben:Wohl kaum mcchaos, wenn es sowas wie Autoritäten bei Google gibt dann wäre wohl zum Beispiel heise.de eine.

Hm, dann sollte ich doch mal einen Angriff wagen

Beitrag von **manute** » 23.10.2004, 21:05

This explains also a bit that the number of backlinks is not important itself but the linkstructure in total.

das glaube ich, ist ein falscher schluss: die tausenden clones muss google in der backlinkwertung manuell ausgeschlossen haben.
hatte kürzlich eine seite mit dmoz-eintrag, top platziert. wurde dann aus dem dmoz gekickt und wenige tage später platzierung und traffic total weg, obwohl noch hunderte links von clones.
meine schlussfolgerung: backlinks von dmoz-clones sind wertlos.

Beitrag von **Optimizer** » 23.10.2004, 21:28

manute hat geschrieben:
This explains also a bit that the number of backlinks is not important itself but the linkstructure in total.
das glaube ich, ist ein falscher schluss: die tausenden clones muss google in der backlinkwertung manuell ausgeschlossen haben.
hatte kürzlich eine seite mit dmoz-eintrag, top platziert. wurde dann aus dem dmoz gekickt und wenige tage später platzierung und traffic total weg, obwohl noch hunderte links von clones.
meine schlussfolgerung: backlinks von dmoz-clones sind wertlos.

Hi Manute,

We are on the same line in this one....

If you read my text well then you know that with linkstructure i mean all in total and not this one dmoz clone..

It depends also how the clone work.....
If it is part of a website.....with unique content completed with a part of DMOZ....then it can work (for instance only the german pages)

How is your experiance with the yahoo directory instead ?

regards,
OPtimizer

Beitrag von **manute** » 23.10.2004, 21:43

We are on the same line in this one....

auch mal gut.

How is your experiance with the yahoo directory instead ?

der link ist auf jeden fall auch sehr wertvoll, in etwa genauso wie dmoz.
allerdings gibt's davon ja keine clones, deswegen kann man die situation wohl nicht wirklich vergleichen.

Beitrag von **KeepCool** » 24.10.2004, 08:53

@Optimizer

Thank you for this very ineresting thread !

We know both the DMOZ has still great influence on authority as soon as the dump is implanted in the google directory itself...this makes it important...not the listing in dmoz itself.

I noticed also that it takes a much longer time to reach the top queries in a certain theme if the site is not in DMOZ.

My experience (US-Site):

New domain (.com) registered May 2004 went online 5-6 May; Google visited the site two days later. Doamin has NOW about 1000 sites listed in G. Very well optimized but not OVERoptimized...NO DMOZ listing (yet), editors probably sleep...

Link-Strategy:

1. Single Link from a PR9-Site with high reputation but NOT themed; link is in a BANNER with Alt-Text "Best keyword opportunities". The PR9-Site has not more than 3 (!!!) outgoing Links.
2. Single Link from a PR8-Site (old site of the company)
3. Sitewide from a PR6-Network with about 1400 sites (Footer-Link; NOT themed)
4. Sitewide from a PR7-Network with about 15 000 sites (Footer-Link; NOT themed)
5. Sitewide from a PR5-Network with about 2300 sites (Footer-Link; THEMED)
6. About 60 single Links from well-known high PR-directories (paid listings) in the themed category

The mentionned keyword is a high-competitive term (financial industry) with >14 Million serps and expensive in AdWords (> 5 $ / per click).

Site couldn't be found even with combinations of KW during the first months. ( Not even #1000

)

Now: site has a "fat" PR8 and ranks #5 for keyword in google.com. It ranks high for industry relevant phrases too !

I think, the point is here the single PR9 Link + the diversification strategy.

It is not a problem to rank high WITH a DMOZ listing...without DMOZ-Listing and a big budget, you have to be patient about 6 months (for a new site) and more (for high competitive singles and phrases) and try to develop an intelligent "low-budget-strategy" --> getting links, content, and waiting...

I love Google !!! If you have a solid link-marketing budget, a good ROI-Strategy and a liitle bit of experience in SEO, it's an easy to become an "authority" in your industry, even without ever beeing listed in DMOZ

The "big boys strategy" is the same as years ago: BOMBING TO THE TOP !!! You can even bomb you out of the "Sandbox", everything is possible (after 4 months, without DMOZ)...This site will surely get #1, there is no doubt...even without DMOZ.

The great point is, the linking PR9-Site excluded Yahoo & Co (only from the ONE site linking)...so NOONE can see the "Killer-Link"...

It's a great "invisibility modus"...

I hope, my case study helps...

KeepCool

Beitrag von **Webby** » 24.10.2004, 11:28

Yep, you can buy your way to the top as you have illustrated in your good example above. It is imo the diversifification which helps a great deal as without diversification of link sources etc. you are likely to trigger a ''bought links' filter or a 'link text all the same filter' .-)

I would disagree that sitewide links help in any way. I know the footer links in this forum are just as powerful as one link on my homepage (tested). Webbys recipe for success

2 x pr 8 link, few outgoings, thematic, link text with keyword part of phrase.
1x pr 7 link, few outgoings, not necesarily thematic, link text with keyword part of phrase.
3x pr 6 links from separate domains (ip c block), mixed keywords as link text.
8x pr 5 link from separate domains, varied link text majority however including keyword.
30 + <pr 4 links from separate domains with approx 75% containing keyword in phrase but not duplicated more than 5 times.

Strong on page optimization, lots of content (+1000 pages), carefully thought out internal link structure with no orphans and thematic groupings of internal links.

Voila, top 10 for highly competitive keyword.

Whether the ROI is there very much depends on whether you can get the links naturally or whether you need to pay for them. To pay for them all you will need a budget of approx. €2,750-€3.250 per month. The above is based on a highly competitive based keyword but not as competitive as say 'online casino' or say 'privat krankenversicherung'. The budget would most likely need to double in that case.

BTW, I rate a DMOZ link as much as I'd rate any other thematic link. I really dont believe they have any additional boost just because they are DMOZ and I agree the DMOZ clones are not counting as backward links. If they are treated with a mod_rewrite...

Alan

Beitrag von **KeepCool** » 24.10.2004, 11:52

@Alan

would disagree that sitewide links help in any way. I know the footer links in this forum are just as powerful as one link on my homepage (tested).

I agree with you, if you mean Google...Yahoo & Co count sietewides as x links, so you will get therewith a considerable link popularity boost...

depends on whether you can get the links naturally or whether you need to pay for them

Tell me please who links to you an "natural way", when your product is - let's say - "mortgages" or "loans"...

There are terms, normally people NEVER link to...that is the reality concerning commercial KeyWords / Sites.

Alan, for my part this is advertising, so you have to calculate a considerable budget for - or much time, enthusiasm and regular income -...Like campaigns in print-media or TV...There is just a different medium (=internet) but if you have a good business plan, the ROI is fantastic, EVEN you have to spend money for...

you will need a budget of approx. ?2,750-?3.250 per month.

The budget for MY example is approx. $8900 per month, the ROI (considering the site has its #5 position for 3 weeks) will be over $100 000 per month, ALL generated with these well ranked terms...and should increase at long-term...

Regards,

KeepCool

Beitrag von **Cbn5** » 24.10.2004, 12:37

Jetzt möchte ich mich auch mal einklinken

Wie passen dann diese de.vu/de.sr/de.tc-Domains ins Bild? Bei vielen großen Keywords schieben sich "kleine" Subdomains mit vielleicht 10 - 50 themenfremden (Gästebuch, Blog) Links und PR 2-4 zwischen die vermeindlichen Autoritäten mit teilweise 500 - 2000 Backlinks und PR>5.

Ein "deutsches" Phänomen bei dem Google den Subdomains wegen dem de. in den Domainnamen eine Art Sonderbonus einräumt?

Grüße,

Sebastian

Beitrag von **Monsieur** » 24.10.2004, 13:24

You're writing about "NOT themed" links.
I wonder if a link from a site in a different language counts as much as a site in the same language (both not themed).

I have a site in English, but haven't used it yet to boost any other site (no outgoing links on the main page), so I'ld like to know if it would work or not.
Maybe I should just try it out...